WWJD? Well, I’ll tell you.
Two Sundays ago, Tacy came home from church wearing a WWJD bracelet.
I actually never saw the bracelet; Kyle greeted her, noticed her new jewelry, and directed her to remove it and throw it in the trash. Then he told me about it later on that day, at the pool, in front of other people. I dropped an f-bomb or two in spite of having an audience.
Because, seriously. What the fuck?
Number one, I hate those goddamn rubber bracelets embossed with “inspirational” messages. I hate them almost as much as I hate those stupid magnetic ribbons on cars, which are nearly as bad as those ridiculous “Baby on Board” signs. If you really want everyone to know exactly what you’re thinking all the time, get yourself a blog. They’re free, and nobody has to look at it if they don’t want to.
But more importantly, the thought of her wearing one of those bracelets felt like a violation. Imagine a Jewish child coming home wearing a cross. Or a Muslim child coming home wearing a Star of David. Or a Catholic child coming home wearing an “Imagine No Religion” tee shirt.
It’s got a rainbow on it! Maybe there’s a dual message…
No, I don’t think our neighbors are trying to convert our daughter. That’s not the issue.
The issue is that if kids aren’t presented with alternatives, they’ll assume there aren’t any. By the time they grow up enough to realize that other beliefs exist – and are equally worth exploring, in my opinion – inertia has taken hold. And it starts with innocuous symbols like popsicle stick crosses and rubber bracelets that remind you to ask yourself, “What would Jesus do?”
Well, here’s what Julie and Kyle decided to do. We’re going to take turns getting up on weekends and going to religious services with Tacy. Not just to churches, but to temples and mosques and any other place that will let us in. And we’re going to take notes and discuss them at breakfast afterward.
We started yesterday. Kyle took Tacy to a local Christian Science church. He attended services, she went to Sunday School, and the two of them discussed their findings over bacon and eggs.
(Why Christian Science? That’s the religion Kyle was raised in. Another post for another day.)
Next week, it’s my turn. I’ll take her to Catholic Mass, since I was baptized Catholic (and that was the extent of my religious training).
Maybe she’ll decide that she wants to follow an organized religion, maybe she won’t. But at least she’ll do it with open eyes…and a tummy full of bacon and eggs.
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Want to know why another lifelong Republican might vote for Obama?
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Want to win a soccer bag like the one Tacy’s holding below?
September 15th, 2008 at 5:52 am
My kids go to a Christian private school, we get up and haul our tired butts to church every week, I believe in God. I have a deep believe in faith, but I truly believe that it is the essential faith in a higher power, not the exact details of ritual, that matter. It took me a long time to come to my beliefs, to find a church that spoke to me, regardless of what my parents (bible-belt fire and brimstone southern baptists)tried to pound into me. I want my kids to come to those faith choices on their own or they mean nothing, they become as ingrained as turkey on Thanksgiving or popcorn at the movies. You’re doing a great thing, exposing her to many options, if she feels a connection, then great. If not, keep looking.
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September 15th, 2008 at 6:21 am
“If you really want everyone to know exactly what you’re thinking all the time, get yourself a blog. They’re free, and nobody has to look at it if they don’t want to.”
Me and my non-bumper-sticker-emblazoned car agree totally. And got a good laugh. What a great line.
canapes last blog post..The coda and cadence
September 15th, 2008 at 6:31 am
GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!!
I remember being intrigued by religion and jealous of my friends who were involved in organized worship. I wish my parents had taken the time to explore this interest of mine instead of saying, “Meh. You were baptized Catholic, but we don’t DO church.”
I think you are doing what EVERYONE should. If not for their kids, at least for themselves. I can’t wait to hear her perspectives.
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September 15th, 2008 at 7:14 am
I have a “stupid” magnetic ribbon for autism awareness. I have a blog. Actually, 3 blogs. I have no problem making myself heard.
I understand your point when it comes to religion. As a child I had it crammed down my throat until I rebelled against it. I am never going to force any sort of religion on my children.
But, there is nothing wrong with showing your beliefs, or your support. I proudly display my magnetic ribbon (and many other autism related items, in fact) as a parent of a child with autism.
photo mommys last blog post..Incessant Rain and a Milestone
September 15th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Oh photo mommy, don’t get upset based on my snarky opinion. It’s not like I’ve ever gone around switching ribbons from car to car in a parking lot.
September 15th, 2008 at 7:51 am
I loathe the “WWJD?” expression, not least because I believe JWD things VERY differently.
Aren’t you a little worried that Tacy will begin to associate the delish breakfasts with organized religion?
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September 15th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Ooh! My dad was also raised Christian Scientist and has been an atheist ever since. (Another Atheist Republican!)
I hate those bracelets too!
Amandas last blog post..Ladies I love
September 15th, 2008 at 8:20 am
I think it’s wonderful that you’re doing that. Besides the exposure to new and differing opinions, just the time you’re each spending with her.
Heathers last blog post..The Winner!
September 15th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Oh, also, there’s a girl around here with the license plate: WWSVD.
It took me a while to figure out. But, based on her bumper stickers, I’m going with “What Would Sid Vicious Do.”
A far more concrete example to follow, I think.
September 15th, 2008 at 9:02 am
It’s always the guys with the WWJD bumper stickers that cut me off in traffic.
I think it’s a great idea to visit different churches to show Tacy all of the different beliefs out there. My husband was raised Jewish, and he said their youth group visited a different religion every other month to learn about differences. I think that’s awesome. (And he’s now an atheist, too.)
Christinas last blog post..Coins Aren’t For Buying Stuff, They’re For Stuffing Pigs (duh)
September 15th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Brilliant. Freaking brilliant. I wish my parents had done that for me.
Add my dad to the *Was a Christian Scientist but is now an atheist* club.
September 15th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Couple of thoughts: First, I think it’s a waste of time. What makes the religions of the world problematic is not different for each one; rather, it’s their common element, faith. Their cosmetic theological differences are fascinating from a historical perspective, but I’d expect that level of appreciation to be beyond T. Perhaps I’m wrong. But I’d think she’d be more curious about why people would believe in _any_ sort of deity (and why you don’t), and you don’t need to get into denominational particulars to answer that.
Second, your plan feels a little disrespectful to believers. No matter the official policy of any given house of worship on observers/guests, the parishioners, who are ostensibly there for some form of spiritual communion, might not appreciate the “anthropologists observing the primitive tribe” vibe. It might seem a little rich of me to tsk-tsk disrespecting the faithful, but I respect them as individuals enough to not go into their house outfitted with pith helmet and clipboard to criticize them.
September 15th, 2008 at 9:20 am
(Dammit, I meant “field journal”, not “clipboard”. (I had considered writing “lab coat and clipboard”.) Damn. Mixed my metaphors, that’ll be at _least_ 2 Our Fathers and 10 Hail Marys.)
September 15th, 2008 at 9:26 am
I’m dittoing everyone. I tried to raise my kids in the “free marketplace of ideas” mode and it worked pretty well. What a beautiful idea to take Tacy to different places! (by the way I kept thinking about “Are You There God, It’s Me, Margaret” as I read this for some reason.) Anyway, you two are amazing parents – I think most of all by showing Tacy the kind of respect that you are offering by sharing ideas and inquiry with her. Lovely.
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September 15th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Madge – WWSVD? Freaking brilliant.
Johnathan – Waste of time? I *wish* I’d paid more attention in all of those services I attended as a harpist. Frankly, I often feel rather ignorant when I don’t understand even basic religious metaphors and analogies that are common in life and literature.
And disrespectful? We’re not attending for the purpose of poking fun – we’re there to observe and learn. Kyle and I may not agree with the conclusions that the other attendees have come to, but that doesn’t mean we can’t be respectful of them as thoughtful individuals.
The idea is to show our daughter that many different schools of thought exist, that people are passionate about their beliefs, and that we are encouraging her to explore beyond what we ourselves believe.
September 15th, 2008 at 9:57 am
I love that you and Kyle are visiting all those churches with her. I always thought that’d be pretty neat but my parents couldn’t even get going to bring me to the Catholic church down the street (I went to mass with friends). I now am a Unitarian Universalist b/c I like the rituals of church but not the “thou shalt” or “fire and brimstone” stuff. But, once they are all a little bigger, I may try to visit other services to expose them to more than my world view. But, gulp, what if they (or Tacy) decide to become fundamental Christians b/c that is the church they like the best?
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September 15th, 2008 at 9:58 am
That’s what my parents did and I think my sibs and I turned out alright =)
September 15th, 2008 at 10:43 am
I’m not sure I would have had such a strong reaction as your hubby – I mean, if you want her to be open to all alternatives, tossing the bracelet in the trash might not be the right message – but then again, not my kid, not my family!
I think that taking her to a variety of religious services is a great idea – it’s the same plan that Hubby and I have for our kids once they are a little bit older and able to distinguish and choose (if they want to). Good for you!
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September 15th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Julie, I’m not denigrating comparative religion as a field of study, I’m just doubting its age-appropriateness for Tacy. I’m no specialist in child development; maybe she’s ready for it. You’d know better than I.
That said, your “church of the week club” seems ill-matched to your motivation. Your visceral response was “the thought of her wearing one of those bracelets felt like a violation”, but then you frame your action plan around the premise that “if kids aren’t presented with alternatives, they’ll assume there aren’t any”. That sounds, frankly, confused. Was Kyle chucking the bracelet an example of presenting T with alternatives? Were you cursing because she didn’t get an “Allahu Akbar” and “L’Chaim” wristband as well? Expecting a Christian to treat their religion as though the details didn’t matter shows a real lack of fundamental understanding of the nature of religion that your smorgasbord of faith approach is unlikely to counter.
(Consider also that why it felt like (and _was_ in my opinion) a “violation” is related to why I think observing actual worship services (as opposed to visiting off-hours) as an unbeliever is disrespectful. But enough from me, I’m off to the Bronx Zoo — I hear their Seventh-Day Adventist exhibit is kickin’.)
September 15th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Hi. I think that really interesting what your doing by taiing her to different places. I wasn’t raised in any religion, but I have gone a few times to church with my boyfriend. I think religion is interesting and it would be kind of neat to go to different places.
zandors last blog post..Juice Diets and Comments
September 15th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
The bracelet went in the trash because I find the sentiment behind it insulting. I don’t need a Bible or any other religious tome to tell me how to treat other people well, and my child doesn’t need a tacky rubber reminder to do the same.
WWJD is not a “detail” of any particular Christian denomination’s beliefs – it’s a pop culture way of making Jesus “cool”.
Was it disrespectful to visit the Blue Mosque to observe a call to prayer when we were vacationing in Istanbul? The Muslims handing out scarves and directing us where to leave our shoes outside didn’t seem to think so. They were happy to welcome us into their house of worship (and no, it didn’t cost a dime. Or a lira.)
September 15th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
I love your idea – it’s a great way to learn about other faiths and cultures.
In Denver, about a mile or so from my house, there’s a Hare Krishna vegetarian/vegan restaurant that I believe is next door to their place of worship (though I’m woefully ignorant of their customs and so I can’t say much more than that about, or whether guests are welcome). You could include a meal as a part of the process.
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September 15th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Ughhhh WWJD in rainbow form? That really pisses me off. If I were a gay youth and had someone hand that to me, I would give a whole new meaning to term “Hate Crime.”
The Christian Right is a sick, insidious, brain-washing entity, and of course it has to make its biggest stronghold right here in Colorado. Focus on the Family is the devil.
Hannas last blog post..The child’s best interest
September 15th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
I constantly find myself struggling not to vilify the Christian religion. I keep reminding myself that there are some followers of Christ who are kind, non-judgmental people … and then I drive past the touchdown Jesus on I-75 (Franklin, Ohio) and lose all of my goodwill.
September 15th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
yeeeah…you all are tougher than we are, because i don’t think i could stomach a literal month of sundays having various and sundry dogma rammed into my cranium. not even to promote free thinking and choice. nope, can’t do it.
what would sid vicious do? stomp on it, piss on it, and then nod off. i prefer the more innocuous “what would scooby d(o)o?”
“rye ron’t know.”
September 15th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
I think it’s ubercool that you are doing this for your daughter, particularly in spite of what you yourself believe. And I’d think that any religious institution worth a second visit would be honored to be included in your plans.
I don’t know what we’ll do with Thalia yet. I’m just trying to stop N from sneering at all faiths for starters. It’s awesome to get to a point where you’re past anger and onto observation and seeing whether each religion has something of value to offer.
Mom101s last blog post..Thalia’s first day of preschool
September 15th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
damn Julie, you’ve inspired me with this.
jens last blog post..it’s this
September 15th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
I don’t necessarily feel a need to agree or disagree with how you choose to raise Tacy, of course, but I wholeheartedly agree with this:
“WWJD is not a “detail” of any particular Christian denomination’s beliefs – it’s a pop culture way of making Jesus “cool”.”
I am Protestant – a Christian attending a Bible Church – and I stand strong in my faith BECAUSE I wholeheartedly believe it. We take our children to church, not to indoctrinate them, but to teach them of the faith of which we strongly believe. We are well aware that one day it will be THEIR time to decide what to believe.
I had my time – and I made a decision.
They will have THEIR time – and they will make their own decisions.
In our homeschool they will be introduced to all the different religions of the world. They ask questions and we seek out answers. Right now they accept my faith as a truth, because they know I would only tell them what I believe to be true. Later, their questions will be harder, they will think outside of the mommy and daddy box, and again, they will (like all of us eventually) make their own way.
OMSHs last blog post..Ideal Bite
September 15th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Julie, to begin at the end, I’d say that yes it probably was disrespectful of you to visit a mosque for the Ezan, but that answer depends on some specifics regarding attitudes of the devout toward atheists that I haven’t researched. Chances are they thought you were people of the book, not atheists. However, this “is it respectful or not” discussion really doesn’t interest me the way your reaction to the bracelet does.
You should find the sentiment on the bracelet insulting. It is insulting. But it’s fascinating to watch you try to frame it as just a problem with style. What you reacted so strongly against was a Christian message, that one should endeavor to live one’s life by emulating the decisions that the principle figure of Christianity would have made. What’s more, someone put this distinctly Christian message on _your daughter_, because some Christians care less about your parental prerogative than they do about your daughter’s salvation. This should not come as a shock, and given your lack of belief, you are right to be pissed. It’s them vs. you.
But make no mistake. That is a type of Christianity. You teach your child a very poor lesson if you try to pretend that all “real believers” would never be so, so _tacky_, as to judge someone else’s faith, or that inter-religious hostility (to say nothing of hostility towards atheists!) is extraneous to, rather than inherent in, religious doctrine. You might as well teach her world history but putting her on the “It’s A Small World After All” ride at the Magic Kingdom.
September 15th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
I think that you are doing something truly AMAZING by committing to take Tacy to all of those churches/places of worship. Not only does that give the chance to discover religions, but also to be so much more accepting of people who are different. Way to go.
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September 16th, 2008 at 11:41 am
I think the WWJD bracelet was a teachable moment. You could ask Tacy why she was wearing it; why she liked it; what it meant to her. I think her answers would have been interesting.
As I have said before, my parents raised me in an ethics-heavy, religionless manner (they generally referred to religion by pointing out its flaws).
The important part for me was the grounding in ethics. They did not harp on it; they just behaved correctly and expressed disgust with those who did not.
I found my own faith, or some might say lack of faith, path and I am happy for that. I love serving on the board of a church where I am not expected to mimic the beliefs of my fellow churchgoers.
I don’t think you need to take Tacy to different churches unless she requests it. If she asks for books on religion or wants to go with friends, I would let her do it and keep an open mind to see what beliefs she is developing and why. I would trust her – she’s a smart kid.
September 16th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Hey, Johnathan. When I was a kid, my parents did something quite similar to what Julie and Kyle are discussing. My parents put aside their religious convictions and made a decision to immerse my siblings and I in a variety of faiths. It was very important to them that we understood that there were options, but it was more important to them that we understood how to tolerate and respect different faiths.
In my opinion, it was one of the better parenting decisions they made. Faith-hopping opened up and added to my world, enriched my life.
Now, then. Over the course of my life, have I encountered people of faith who were incensed or offended by my parents’ decision? Not very often. I can only think of two incidences wherein somebody was offended by the “anthropologist” aspect of things. More often than not, the individuals of each faith were pleased that my parents were introducing us to their faith, to their beliefs and to them. Because of my upbringing, I am friends today with a number of people from a variety of faiths and I have never once heard of any of them being upset by visitors “observing” them and their customs. Most people are honored and thankful that an outsider would consider their faith earnestly and give their children the tools with which to make educated faith-based choices.
When people were offended or disappointed in my family, it was typically because they felt we were considering too many choices. Too many “other” choices. Too many other “invalid” choices. Too many other, invalid, “wrong” choices. And that was it.
There is a way to accomplish what Julie and Kyle are discussing and do so with respect and without closing their daughter’s world. She is not too young to understand (I was younger and, after all, many faiths have services which cater to young children) and to consider and to understand not only THAT people are different, but HOW they are different and WHY they are different – religiously and otherwise. And her parents, simply by making a choice to do what they feel is best for their family by showing their daughter that there is more than just their atheism and her friend’s Christianity, have shown that they are competent enough to guide their daughter lovingly and respectfully through this tour of faiths.
Personally, I think what you said is incredibly more insulting. This is VERY close to how I was raised, and I really do think that my sibs and I (all five of us) turned out just fine. At the very least, we’re all very open to different religious perspectives – even if they are in direct conflict with ours, or if they are unfamiliar to us – and that, right there, is something not everybody can say.
September 16th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Well, I think this is a FANTASTIC idea. My parents were open to my learning about other religions, but I never went to any other services. I would have really gotten a lot from that, and from learning about other religions earlier. But they wanted to raise me Christian, with a respect for other religions, so there’s that.
In addition to this being a great way to learn about other religions, this will provide your daughter will the tools to not just mindlessly follow the masses or even her friends but instead to wonder what else is out there, think through the alternatives and be able to come up with her own decisions.
Correct me if I’m wrong, Julie, but this issue really stems from her just following along with what her friend is doing (going to church, wearing the bracelet, etc.). In fact, that is my problem with these bracelets. They do not encourage people to really think about what Jesus would do, but what the church wants you to do, whichever church it might be, or follow whichever pop culture framework of Jesus is currently being heralded. The truth about Jesus is that he was a radical who preached against the organized religion of his day. He spoke out against so many of the things that are STILL a part of so many organized religions, including Christianity. WWJD? He would rally followers against the prevailing man-made customs of religions.
I consider myself Christian, and I even bring my daughter to church with me. I would still be totally pissed off if she came home with one of those bracelets given to her and encouraged to wear it by people who do not seem to respect my belief system.
One last comment, for Jonathan: as an adult, I have been to other church services (although I admit not other religions). What you will generally find is that people are excited to have a visitor who has interest in their church/beliefs/religion. The thing about religion is most people WANT to share it, even with non-believers. Most religions even want to convert you! Therefore they welcome people who come even if they are atheists. Even if they are of other religions. Even if they are anthropologists. They WANT you to see what they have to offer. They hope you like what you see, that you discuss what you’ve seen, and that you come back again. So Julie and her husband doing this are not out of line at all, but in fact exactly who most religious people hope will walk through their doors.
caramamas last blog post..More On Breakfast, Plus Freckles and Repetitive Nopes
September 16th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Yeah. I’d have problems with religious symbols coming into my house without my knowledge. But did she get it at Sunday school with her friend? Because that makes sense…. To just give it to her randomly is a bit off, though.
traceys last blog post..We Just Didn’t Talk About It
September 17th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Or we could just pretend it stood for What Would Julie Do?
I was getting stuff at a porn shop for a bachlorette party and the cashier had a WWJD bracelet on. It was 8 years ago and I still laugh at the memory. It made me realize that the bracelet really stands for very little. It is the actions that stay with you.
September 17th, 2008 at 11:29 am
For those of you who don’t see the differences between religions (or a lack of religion) as matters of right and wrong, true and false, you have only the shallowest appreciation of the force that’s among the most responsible for shaping the course of human history. Treating it as a study of Baskin Robbin’s 31 flavors may familiarize your children with the range of symbols and language, but at the expense of understanding just how religion can motivate man to subjugate and kill. I sincerely hope that’s knowledge of which they can live out their lives in ignorance, but don’t pretend that what you’re doing is providing an _education_. My earlier points in previous posts were addressed to those who should know that religion — and what draws man to religion in particular, rather than other types of social clubs — isn’t to be trifled with.
September 20th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
I am sorry for my irrational comment the other day.
I was feeling a bit froggy and some of your comments didn’t sit well with me at the time.
I realize now that your post was mostly religion based and there really was no reason to let it get to me that way.
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November 24th, 2008 at 12:38 am
As the neighbor that has provided the feedstock for much of this discussion I have to add a couple of comments.
We are committed Christians and have been for years. I believe that the WWJD mantra and bracelets are patently absurd, but for a different reason than some others here. Did Jesus wear a bracelet that said “WWDD (What Would Dad Do)”? Of course he didn’t. The change that a Christian undergoes has to be internal and the proof of that change has to be external. Most of us do our best to demonstrate this, but people’s best always needs work… If I am wearing this fashion statement when I behave in a less than Christlike manner (like getting in a shouting match in traffic; yes I’ve done that too Julie) it will tarnish my witness before I ever have the chance to make a friend and share my beliefs with more than a superficial bracelet. I also choose to let my kids choose whether to wear this or not after hearing my input on the matter. They do not wear them.
On the subject of visiting other religions, I once visited other religion’s places of worship in much the same way that Kyle and Julie have chosen to do with Tacy. It was a youth group activity of my church. It was a very enlightening study and I somewhat disagree with Jonathan’s blanket assessment. No religion that desires to proselytize should have any reason to turn away ANY visitor. Some religions do not proselytize in this way and it is important to respect this difference as well. For me as a youth it was the study before and after the attendance that provided the real insight as to what I observed. We had a leader from the particular religion speak to our group and explain what we would observe in their worship and answer questions afterwards. This kept the answers that I received from being skewed by my youth leader’s own biases. As to the age appropriateness of the activity, that is Kyle and Julie’s call, but Tacy is a mature little girl.
I also wanted to provide a little clarity to Tracey’s comments. Tacy did attend Sunday School with our daughter and made the bracelet there. I believe that this is the real issue with “visiting around”. Those whom you are visiting will naturally assume that you are one of them or at least have no major objection to their activities. My children have visited Catholic churches and as a Protestant I make sure to have a discussion with them afterward because it is confusing to hear different “truths” at a young age. Be ready to accept that and discuss afterward rather than getting angry. For the girls I believe that it is about friendship rather than any interest in religion or interest in converting a friend. After Tacy’s first visit we did provide Kyle and Julie a brochure about the church so that they could see where Tacy had attended. If the brochure generated interest, then we were prepared to discuss with them, but that was the extent of the sharing that was done. Friendship is more important than such personal issues.
Lastly, I believe that Julie hits on the real issue that concerns most parents – PEER PRESSURE. This has to scare any parent who cares at all about what happens to their kids because it is most intense when we’re not around. We all feel peer pressure every day, but kids get a mega dose. I think what most of us want for our kids is that they can stand up to peer pressure before they compromise their basic beliefs. I strongly believe that if the parents do not instill those basic beliefs at an early age someone else will and I will not get to help in that process. Now that’s scary!
November 29th, 2008 at 11:11 am
I think that the real reason that one does not like the bracelets and symbols, especially to those who were raised in a religious household, is because it brings back to them how they are “supposed” to act.
Not having a higher power to answer to allows for un-checked behavior. I can act any way that I want and no one can say a word, because they are not the boss of me and it ends with me.
It is what allows someone to have their children play at a neighbors house while they go to the grocery store and when the favor is asked to be returned there are comments like “I didn’t know I was responsible for your child.” Lack of belief also lets you use language like dropping “F” bombs in any situation without regard to the sensibilities of the audience.
I believe that faith grounds an individual, couple, family, community and nation. If we believe that there is a higher calling than ourselves, we will act in a much different way. We will have much different expectations, and I believe will have much more joy in our lives.
If the purpose of going to “other” services is to point out the differences between the religions and the hypocricy and trying to point out because of it there is no God, please stay home. Eventually, your children will see the common thread and will embrace religion and you will have to make a hard choice.
Too many Americans get their family values from the Simpsons, and that is how they allow their family to run. Dad is a dope, mom is the one who makes it all happen, and they do it all for the kids and there is no discipline, because we are all equal. Languange is just words, and the use of words without values lets one think that a four year old dropping an “F” bomb is cute.
You don’t have to be a bible thumping zealout, but I invite you to at least live like there is something higher than yourself to live for.
November 29th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
“Not having a higher power to answer to allows for un-checked behavior.”
That is patently false. It has been thoroughly demolished as a religious-right wing talking point for several years now by many mainstream publications. But to summarize, I do not need to live with the threat of eternal damnation or promise of endless joy in order to treat others with respect. Morality is doing good for goodness’ sake and not causing unnecessary harm.
Lack of belief also has nothing to do with coarse language, and neither does polite language have anything to do with belief; they’re mutually exclusive. Your logical fallacies and ad hominem attacks reveals more ignorance of other belief systems or lack thereof than any cogent point.
Morality divorced of any “boss” implies the individual doing good works does so because he/she wants to and finds pleasure helping others. Would you prefer a helping hand from someone who WANTS to or is forced to because there’s a threat/reward if he does not? I urge you to embrace life, carpe diem, love others and be happy for its own sake. If in the end we both lead good, honorable, moral lives – I ask you who’s the better for it? You fear damnation and pray for a good set of wings and a harp as a reward. I however, am rewarded daily because I derive enjoyment from good works and morality whenever I do these things. I invite YOU to at least consider the possibility of living for yourself.
Americans get values from Simpsons? Are you kidding? I know of no one, have read no article nor have heard any pundit ever say such a thing. What support could you possibly provide for such a ridiculous statement?
As for your suggestion that we stay home from churches – you apparently didn’t read Julie’s post very carefully. Cliff had it right; he understood.
November 29th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
With the last three commenters having had their say, I’m now closing comments on this post.