Bible school is no vacation
A few weeks ago, the little girl across the street rang our doorbell.
When I answered, she handed me a balsa wood cross, painted purple and green. “This is Tacy’s. She made it at Vacation Bible School,” she informed me.
“Ah.” I nodded. “Thanks, hon.”
I closed the door and went back to the kitchen, leaving the cross on the counter.
A short while later, Kyle came home. He tossed the mail onto the counter and noticed the cross. “Whose miniature torture device is this?”
“Tacy’s. She made it at Vacation Bible School. I’ve been pretending it’s a lower-case T.”
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That’s right. The child who once disrupted her pre-school class by standing up and stamping her foot while insisting that God didn’t exist and Christmas really was all about Santa Claus has fallen victim to peer pressure in the form of proselytization.
As a result of her budding friendship with the daughter of our new neighbors, Tacy’s been invited several times to attend church and Vacation Bible School. Each time, she has approached us cautiously, as if she expected us to say no.
We haven’t said no.
But each time she asks, we ask her in return, “Do you want to go?” and she nods.
Then we ask, “Why?” and she looks down and squirms and invariably tells us that she wants to be with her friend.
When she returns, Kyle asks her, “What did you learn?” and she shrugs.
Neither of us are comfortable with this development, but our individual objections are different. Kyle’s more concerned about the influence of religion, whereas I see it as peer pressure.
Considering that she seems to view these outings as another opportunity to socialize with her friend, I hardly expect that she’s being indoctrinated. She hasn’t yet chided me for groaning, “Jesus H. Christ…” when she spills her milk or leaves her shoes in the middle of the floor, and she hasn’t begun quoting Scripture or asked for a Bible of her own.
Personally, I’m bothered that she so covets this girl’s friendship that she feels compelled to accept invitations that normally wouldn’t interest her. It’s not just a matter of putting aside her religious skepticism; similar acquiescence routinely takes place on Tacy’s part when she plays with this girl, and neither Kyle nor I like that one bit.
We’re all for sharing and taking turns, and we know that kids can be both leaders and followers. But having followed more than a few of my friends straight into hot water, I know what happens when a child doesn’t know her own mind and doesn’t have the strength to make her own choices.
I also feel a bit disingenuous myself, allowing her to go. If we were Jewish or Muslim or Buddhist or Catholic, would I blithely send my child off to Protestant services with another family – without telling that family of our family’s beliefs? What makes our disbelief any different? Is it simply that while we feel strongly about our own conclusions, we’re not going to impose those conclusions on our kids?
The first time Tacy attended their church, our neighbors brought home a pamphlet from the service. I wasn’t particularly concerned about those details, but I thought it was very considerate of them to keep us informed. They do know that we don’t attend church, but they haven’t inquired further, and neither Kyle nor I have elaborated.
We won’t prevent her from going to church – with this girl’s family or with any other family. But we will encourage her to speak out and say what she thinks, even if her honesty might cost her a friendship – this one or another one down the road. Compromising herself would cost her much more.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:12 am
Heck, I know plenty of people who use VBS as ‘free’ (or cheap; no idea if it’s free or not) daycare. One even flits from church to church.
And, I think that you are right to let her go if she wants to go but to watch out for her motivations—for instance, if the other girl says she must believe a certain way to either be her friend, or go to heaven (yikes!), that wouldn’t be cool. Heavy stuff for a little kid.
Fairly Odd Mothers last blog post..One Flew Into The Cuckoo’s Nest
August 18th, 2008 at 5:37 am
The thought of someone else attempting to “spread the word” to my kid never crossed my mind until I read this post, and quite honestly, I would be concerned from both perspectives you mention (religion’s influence and the peer pressure).
I don’t really have any answers, but I will say that I hope you keep us updated here with any developments, as I think this is a fascinating situation.
SciFi Dads last blog post..Stormtrooper, Sex Doll, and Splash Pad (Oh My)
August 18th, 2008 at 5:42 am
As a Catholic (and my girls go to Catholic school), I do allow them to attend VBS (and sometimes Masses) of other religions with friends. In fact, I think it’s healthy to get a taste of different religions and to learn how they are alike/different.
Actually, my girls are more likely to quote scripture after attending VBS then going to school.
Could Tacy just be interested in the religion aspect but not comfortable talking to you guys about it (hence the shrug)?
And I regularly spout off “Jesus H. Christ..” even thought I know I shouldn’t.
Margarets last blog post..It’s been that long?
August 18th, 2008 at 6:37 am
Wow, that’s really interesting. Thanks for getting me thinking about this topic – both the whole peer pressure and “what to teach our kids” topic.
Hubby and I have discussed how we want to handle religion, since we don’t actively practice anything, and we considered the idea of letting Boopie (encouraging, really) to go to a variety of services and religious houses so that she could get to experience it all and choose what felt right – or choose nothing at all if it wasn’t her deal.
I think it’s great that you’re letting Tacy go with her friend… though I totally understand your concern about peer pressure. I ended up at a church every Sunday for two months for this very reason – and I’m in my twenties!
August 18th, 2008 at 6:58 am
I haven’t been to church in ages. It just hasn’t come up to go. My oldest went to Sunday school, but our other two haven’t, with my youngest never stepping foot in a church. The discussion of the Virgin Mary came up some how the other day and my middle child said, “Whos that?” if that doesn’t make you feel horrible! I guess we should at least bring them church and let them decide for themselves when they are older.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:13 am
An interesting post. My husband and I are not believers although he comes from a very Catholic family (the entire extended family too, not just my in-laws). As my son starts to ask questions like, “Where did the mountains come from? Where did the sky come from?” I’m really curious to see how they will handle our children’s secular understanding of the world to their blanket, “God made it.”
mandys last blog post..A Pictoral Essay, aka, Pictures to Satisfy the Relatives
August 18th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Coming from the “other side” here.
My husband and I are Catholic and our faith including family prayers before meals and attending weekly Mass together are very important to us. We respectfully include others in this practice as it’s a custom in our home and a big part of our life.
When our son is older and has friends who he’d like to invite to church with us, they will always be welcome.
That being said, I also believe in being a light, not blowtorch and that the biggest part of being a Christian is love and respect.
I also don’t think anyone but God has the right to say who goes to HELL and the way people live their lives is a part of their “free will” and none of my bees wax… and this is what I’m passing on to my son.
I just have to have hope and “faith” that our influence will be the biggest thing in forming his character and his beliefs.
Wonderful post!
GHDs last blog post..Update: Dispatches from Toddlerhood
August 18th, 2008 at 10:08 am
The great thing about being an atheist, is that everyone prays for you
. Know why there are so many atheists in NYC? The light at the end of the tunnel is NJ.
Okay, always start off with a joke, right? Tacy and I talk frequently about her church goings. She plays there mostly. At this age, its not too deep; a story here and there and that’s about it. To correct my lovely spouse, she’s NOT been to VBS; the neighbor child was in error. The ancient capitol punishment device was from a Sunday school romp. I stress to her (Tacy) that she is a freethinker and needs to use reason and logic with whatever anyone tells her, including her parents. She’s lamented that there are so many Christians in our neighborhood and wonders why everyone believes in an imaginary being in the sky. I patiently explain its the same pretty much everywhere in this world. Were we in a particular suburb of Bombay, India then all our neighbors would be Zoroastrians (an ancient religion predating Judiasm (I think) and one whose myths and legends were liberally borrowed by early Christians… but I digress). People believe as their parents do, until they learn to think independently, and then most continue believe as their parents do because generally there’s no compelling reason not to; it works for their psyche and is comforting. I’ve told her that she can choose to believe in the multiple gods of Hindu or Catholicism (Father-Son-Holy Ghost), or monotheistically like Allah, or any variant of an American traditional protestant god as each defines him/her and his/her message differently. But that when she does that (if she does) I will ask her to explain why she believes and to defend herself with logic and reason. I won’t dissuade a belief, I’ve told her, but I’ll be disappointed if she ever begins to suspend her own brain functions in order to believe. And if that sounds caustic, I apologize. To this day, I’ve yet to see a logical argument for belief; they’ve been emotional pleas and god-of-gaps arguments which is no proof whatsoever. If any believer is reading this, I’d like to know of one instance where your god has re-grown an amputated limb. But again I digress. This is about Tacy and church. I guess this topic gets my juices flowing and my soap box positioned just right. Pray for me, mmmkay?
So to Margaret, no she isn’t shy about talking to us. She just hasn’t learned a whole heckuva lot yet… leastwise from church.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:09 am
I find this really interesting. I haven’t had to deal with anything like this yet, so I’m curious to see what continues to happen with Tacy.
I think we’d probably be like you and let Cordy go with a friend. It’s always good to learn about what others believe. If she starts to feel pressured to believe it as well, then that might be an issue.
Christinas last blog post..There Are No Rainbows and Unicorns Here
August 18th, 2008 at 10:19 am
We’ve had so many conversations in my house… Being a believer in SOMEthing, but not any religion or man-made group, I love to listen to my kids’ versions of WHY things are the way they are.
My eldest is very similar to myself. He believes in energy, evolution, and possible reincarnation of that energy. My middle son, who went to a Christian preschool for ONE FREAKING YEAR, still asks me about God and Jesus and who came first and tells me that Hell made bad stuff… Sigh. As much as I liked that preschool, I may be rethinking using it for my youngest.
Just wanted to say that they’re NEVER too young to be indoctrinated. I have no problem with explaining different theories to my children, but have ALWAYS left it open to them as what they’ll believe. I still have issues with my middle son and the fact that he accepted the Christian teachings blindly…
traceys last blog post..A season of change…
August 18th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Wow, that’s a tough one. As a Jew I’d have trouble allowing my daughter to go to someplace where the activity would consist of making crosses. We brought her friend to our congregation’s Purim carnival, but the only difference between that and a regular school carnival was that some of the kids wore costumes. I don’t think I’d invite a non-Jewish child to our Sunday school, or feel comfortable letting my kids go to some other religion’s.
feefifotos last blog post..Early Christmas Shopping For A Better Chance To Snag That Hot New Gift Item
August 18th, 2008 at 11:05 am
I grew up in a household with no defined religion. I would go to services with this friend or that most of whom practiced a different relgion than the last. No peer pressure to pick one or the other. I even attended a Catholic grade school and high school. Again no peer pressure.
I think that you are giving your daughter a great deal of freedom to find her own voice when it comes to her beliefs. The fact that she is questioning at such an early age shows that she is not timid or scared in her beliefs and that is something a lot of people are missing today.
Jesss last blog post..Half Awake Manic Monday
August 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
I went to different religious activities with friends of several religions when I was a kid. It had less to do with the religion than just being with the friend.
Heathers last blog post..I Think to Myself What a Wonderful World
August 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Kyle, I’m just thankful to any and all deities that I haven’t had the need to ask for a regrown limb!
August 18th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Julie, et al, I read this post morning and the six comments at that time and have thought about it off / on all day. I am similarly an atheist. I have a live and let live type of attitude, while my dh is a passionate atheist. I think each of our own attitudes toward it resulted from our personal experiences with religion. I was raised Roman Catholic while he was raised southern Baptist / charismatic (that is his description, I have no clue what it really means). While my experiences were neither good nor bad, I simply do not believe. His experiences were mostly bad. So we have roughly the same lack of belief, but from dramatically different beginnings.
It is this that makes me uncertain of what to do with my children. We do not attend any church, naturally, but I would be more willing to let my children attend with a friend if asked than dh would. My MIL is passionately charismatic Christian and a very good person and begs to take our children to church with her at times – like Easter or Christmas. While it is seemingly innocent and it is likely that at young ages, the children do arts and crafts in a class, they are exposed to the beliefs and it is this exposure and lack of questioning by the congregation / attendees that makes it automatically accepted by the children, if not pushed by the parents.
I fear I am making jumbled statements. As Kyle succinctly stated, I hope to instill logic and reasoning into my children and the confidence to question his / her beliefs and alter those beliefs based on reason and science.
Kyle, I would love to have heard the debate you had in the Air Force…
August 18th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
I’m with you, I’d be more worried about my kids speaking up for themselves, than the religion part of it. But hey, I’m not religious. We live near a very Baptist church and Maya has just started asking me about their horrible sayings on the signs. My kids have been to a few different churches with a few different friends. I guess my only issue would be if they started quoting the stuff they heard at one church, because I want my kids to be a bit more open minded than believing there is one way.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
This is something I think about for my own daughter as she gets older. I was raised agnostic but was allowed to attend church and Sunday school with friends as I chose. It was really more about spending time with them than exploring their faith although it did give me an overview of several religions that I might not have gotten otherwise. I will not force any religion down my daughter’s throat, but neither will I deny her the opportunity to find her own. Even if I do think that organized religion causes more problems than it solves. (Sorry, I had to throw that last bit in there, I was being way to politic about the issue.)
Caras last blog post..Heelarious!
August 18th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
I live in Utah, one of the most proselyting states in the country.
The neighbors gladly offer to take children of inactive homes to church or want to bring inactive kids with them, but if you turned it around and asked Mormon parents if they would be willing to let their kids go to a different church I am pretty willing to bet a high majority would say NO.
They have that right, but just from my upbringing I think you’re pretty amazing/fabulous/coolaroony with your openess with your kids.
Loralees last blog post..Weddings
August 18th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Interesting. I have been some what struggling a similar situation.
I believe what I believe because of research, going to various churchs, learning about various religions. However, I want my children to make up their own minds so K has been going to church with her friends. Fine. Her choice. But now the boys want to start going. They have no one to take them.
I am secure in what I believe so do I put that aside and go/take them myself. This is what I am leaning towards right now because I won’t be swayed.
Anyway, good luck. Brain food about peer pressure for sure.
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August 18th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Okay just read the comments.
Kyle, She has always striked me a smart girl and I know why. I have had similar chats with my kids, mostly my DD because she is the one that questions me and goes to church. I have tried to teach them all about different religions and I have educated them on what I believe too.
Higher power? Who knows. I just think religion is something gives people hope because I think a lot there would be a higher rate of slit wrists if people didn’t have that “hope” there, ya know?
Anyway, great discussion. I have thought about going back to school and majoring in Religion (just in general).
Erica/Txgambits last blog post..Photo Contest
August 18th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Tree – I’m flattered that you figured out I debated – tho not sure how.
if you google “kyle marsh atheist” my article appears relating to my big debate. I have the VCR tape if you really want me to burn one, just give me your address.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
That sounds like a good policy. I grew up in a non-religious household and my parents let me go to VBS with a friend and to church when my sister rebelled during her teen years and got all Baptist on us LOL. I tried a lot of churches before finding one that was goofy enough for me, but you know I am still pretty wishy washy about the whole thing. I go mostly for the friends and the snacks.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
I was raised in a non-religious household. My mom took me to church a few times, but I think she felt it was disingenuous for her to take me because she felt like she should, not because she wanted to, so we stopped going. Growing up I was free to attend the churches of friends. I went on retreats, participated in youth group activities, even performed in productions with various churches.
My parents allowed all of this, without directly supporting it.
In high school I asked to be baptized Catholic. My parents said no, knowing I was doing it for the wrong reasons, and they were right.
Ultimately, I’ve found my own way. Having had the opportunities I did when I was younger paved the way. I think you’re doing a great thing for Tacy, however nail biting it may be.
Megans last blog post..It ain’t pretty, but it’s the truth
August 19th, 2008 at 6:45 am
This is such an interesting topic to me. Both my husband and I were raised Catholic, but neither of us have made much of an effort to bring religion into our childrens’ lives. I like your approach of letting her think it through on her own, voice her opinion and air her disbelief. I think that’s much healthier than having something shoved down your throat. I’m sure others disagree, which is OK too.
Kimberlys last blog post..I thought I knew
August 19th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Actually, I agree with the PP who said that many see it as free/cheap childcare. And in some, that’s all it really is.
As for being one religion and sending your kid off to services/classes in another? It actually wouldn’t bother me. To get knowledge of the beleifs and cultures of others can do nothing harmful.
I’m Catholic. Went to school in a plaid skirt, was taught by Sisters, the whole 9.
I also remember being encouraged to learn about other religions/philosophies/belief systems. More than encouraged. Obligated. Thanks to my very Catholic schools, I’ve read the Koran, the Baghavad Ghita, The Communist Manifesto… And I find them all of value.
becoming-mommys last blog post..Janus
August 20th, 2008 at 10:33 am
I could write a book about my very confusion regilious upbringing, but I’ll save that for a post on my own blog and spare y’all.
I think you’re doing a great job. Good enough I’m going to learn something from you and Kyle when it comes time for us to deal with it.
Amelia Sprouts last blog post..A Mommy Blogger Moment
August 20th, 2008 at 11:31 am
I’m glad you addressed the possibility that your child might actually come to different conclusions than you.
Also, Catholics and Protestant Christians believe in 1 God who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spririt. It is not polytheism. I know why you are calling it that, but it’s not consistant with Biblical doctrine, which is what those faiths are based on.
August 31st, 2008 at 10:26 pm
This is why I live in the city and not the scary suburbs. That shit scares me. I want none of it! If my kids are going to come to their own conclusions about religion I want them to do it on their own terms. Visiting different houses of worship, taking classes. Reading books. They are in a school with a variety of different faiths and it seems to me that everyone mostly respects that everyone else may have something different going on in that department. They sometimes have dialogues about their different beliefs. This to me is how it should be.
fruitladys last blog post..Rocker Mama
September 15th, 2008 at 6:55 am
My mom took me to church and Sunday school every week. Once I was in high school I had lots of good “church” friends ad we had fun in really pretty constructive ways. The youth group was also lots of fun. I went on retreats and through confirmation.
When I went away to college I examined the things I’d been taught and quit going to church and became an agnostic. I’ve also had friends who had NO religious upbringing or exposure who became fundamentalists as adults. My point is that you can expose kids to faith but when they’re old enough they’ll make up their own mind. Unless abuse is involved there isn’t danger in exposing kids to faith and if they get a kick out of making popsicle stick crosses so what?