Be good for goodness sake
Last week, I got a call from Tacy’s teacher. They’d been discussing the holiday season, including the reasons behind all the celebrations. One of her classmates had mentioned that Christmas was about more than just Santa and presents - it was also Jesus’s birthday, and that he was the son of God.
“Tacy stood up and told him that God wasn’t real. That her mommy and daddy don’t believe in God and neither does she,” her teacher informed me.
Oy vey.
She went on to tell me that she’d told Tacy that was fine, but that other people may believe differently. I thanked her for handling the situation so well - more or less just as I would have - and assured her that based on similar discussions with Tacy, she wasn’t angry or accusatory, but merely hurt that someone disagreed with her.
Yesterday morning, I dropped off presents for the staff at the girls’ school. The director, whom I know fairly well and like very much, asked if we celebrated Christmas.
I grinned at her. “So [Tacy's teacher] has been telling tales about us heathens, has she?”
“Are you really an atheist?” she asked, surprised. “You’re the only atheist I know.”
We had a friendly discussion in which she admitted her own disillusionment with organized religion - especially the faith in which she was raised - and asked me several questions about my beliefs and lack thereof.
And as I said to her, I don’t mind if you pray for me. I don’t mind answering respectful questions. I don’t even mind if you tell me I’m wrong. What will spark my ire is when someone tells me that I can’t be good without believing in God.
My charming Air Force supervisor - the one who commented on the size of my chest - also interrogated me regarding my beliefs and insisted that I couldn’t have any morals because I didn’t believe in God. He asked me, “If you don’t believe in God, what’s to stop you from snatching purses from little old ladies?”
What a ridiculous question. If avoiding the wrath of God (or working your way into Heaven) is your primary reason for not snatching purses - if it’s your primary reason for doing good versus doing bad in general - then you need to check your moral compass. There are plenty of earthly reasons to do good (or not to do bad) - reasons beyond merely staying out of jail.
One of the most popular songs of the season - Santa Claus is Coming To Town - advocates being “good for goodness sake”. While the lyrics almost certainly reflect the bribe issued by parents since the idea of Santa was conceived - that is, be good or Santa will forsake you! - I think there’s a lot to be said for being good simply for the sake of goodness, not because you are expecting some uncertain eternal reward (or striving to avoid some uncertain eternal punishment).
Science of Good and Evil: Why People Cheat, Share, Gossip, and Follow the Golden Rule
And I’m not the only one who thinks so. Michael Shermer’s book “The Science of Good and Evil” details the evolution of morality and explains better than I ever could how being good benefits both individuals and society as a whole.
Just as Christmas is not merely about Santa, being good is not merely about God.
December 20th, 2006 at 8:35 am
Your last statement sums it up.
Damn you heathens
December 20th, 2006 at 9:22 am
Dear Fellow Heathen,
See you in Hell.
Just kidding…. this is a great topic. Raised a Catholic, I was educated by the nuns to “fear” God. Of course, the “fear” of him never hindered me from smoking cigarettes in the girls bathroom by the time I was in high school. But I have to say I do believe in a larger presence, maybe not so literal as the concept of God - like one man creating the whole universe. I do believe in evolution. But I think you can believe in evolution and have some kind of beliefs because I don’t think the bible was meant to be interpreted literally, and that’s where conservative Christianity drives me nuts.
And you should just be good for goodness sake, because isn’t it truly just part of being a responsible member of the human race? With or without God.
December 20th, 2006 at 9:29 am
That’s like saying you can’t be good if you’re a republican ;o)
December 20th, 2006 at 9:31 am
Hell will be a blast, all the cool heathens will be there!
As you know, we live in an area where God is thrust down our throats every two seconds. We’re the “whispered about” people who don’t own a Bible and make it a point to arrive at functions late to avoid all the preachers and their prayers. I have no idea what we’re going to do once Genius Child starts school. I’m hoping b/c it will be Montessori that it won’t be an issue … who knows. I’m sure we’ll be the Heathen Parents with the Heathen Spawn.
December 20th, 2006 at 9:42 am
amen to that. from one godless heathen to another.
December 20th, 2006 at 9:44 am
Fellow heathen here. I think we’ll be in good company when Satan comes to claim our damned souls. But then again Satan is a made up entity, created to keep us all in check. Kinda like Santa Claus.
December 20th, 2006 at 10:00 am
I totally believe you can be good without being a Christian. In college (I went to a catholic college) I was kicked out of class because when we were talking about “being good Christians” I voiced my displeasure at how the two (being good and being Christian) seemed to always go together. I felt they should be two seperate phrases, and that people could be good no matter what they believed. I still think I am Christian, but I don’t ever go to church because if God is everywhere, why do I need to go there to talk to him? This religous stuff is tricky…we are raising our kids Catholic, but with all my differing opinions thrown in for them to be able to make their own decisions of what they believe and don’t believe.
December 20th, 2006 at 10:20 am
You can definitely be “good” without being a Christian. And, on the same note, you can be “bad” and be a Christian. Hey I was born and raised and still live in the Bible belt, so I know.
The thing that bugs me about this post is, whether you mean to or not, you seem to have a condescending attitude toward Christianity. I’m not overtly religious, however I do believe in God. We’re not attending church regularly right now but I would like my girls to have the same exposure I did to church growing up. I’d like them to frame their own opinions about organized religion, God, Jesus, etc. I would be concerned if Caitlin came home and told me she stood up in class and denied Buddha’s existence, for example. I’m a believer in God in many forms to many different people, so I’ll admit wholeheartedly it’s tough for me to relate to atheism but I respect your beliefs. I fall somewhere in the middle. It’s a tough balance to teach our kids to respect other beliefs and religions, without forcing our own beliefs on them and teaching them that one way is right and good over the other. I’m relearning this parenting thing constantly and this is just one more thing to throw in the pot!
December 20th, 2006 at 10:27 am
Jamie, you’re right - I don’t mean to sound condescending toward Christianity or toward any religious beliefs. Can you tell me specifically which statements convey condescension?
But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with denying the existence of a deity - be it God, Yahweh, Buddha, Allah, or whomever. Just like there’s nothing wrong with asserting the existence of a deity. I have no quarrel with the child who spoke up and voiced his belief that Jesus is the son of God, and likewise, I’m proud of my child for speaking up and voicing her (or rather, our) belief that God doesn’t exist - especially since hers is the minority view.
December 20th, 2006 at 12:07 pm
Being good without expecting a reward is the true meaning of Bad. (Bad of course is the new Good!)
I strive for being Agnostic because really what is the point of questioning when there are no answers.
December 20th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
I believe in something. I’m not sure what it is but I don’t believe in any organized religion or faith, particularly ones that say “You’re bad if you’re not exactly like us”. I think being good is it’s own reward and I’d like to believe that it comes from within, rather than from some external fear-based interpretation of faith.
We still do the Santa thing but only because it’s fun, not because it instills better behavior.
December 20th, 2006 at 1:59 pm
So do you think you will get any flack from the other parents? I’m glad to hear the teacher and director were respectful. As for your former officer, I’ll give him a great big “Good grief!”
December 20th, 2006 at 2:04 pm
On Kristen’s show last night - where I coincidentally was on to discuss raising children without religion - I said I often feel like a curiosity. I’d be surprised if anyone jumped to conclusions, or let that nugget of info color their whole view of me. But I’ve been surprised before…
December 20th, 2006 at 2:04 pm
As you know, I am a Godless Heathen living in the land of bible thumpers extraordinaire. As such, I loved your post, and identified with every word. My kids haven’t broadcast our evil ways to the classroom…yet.
I have the exact same feelings. When you tell me I’m not a good person because I’m not a Christian, we have a problem. It make my blood absolutely boil. It’s boiling now, just thinking about it. I need a cocktail.
December 20th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
I don’t think ethics have a thing to do with religion. And I speak as a religious person. The way that my religion helps me in that area is by surrounding myself with other people who have high expectations of decent behavior, so there is a kind of peer pressure to behave well. This, like any other kind of peer pressure, is no guarantee that one actually WILL behave well.
But I have said again and again that I was raised by non-religious people. People who were suspicious and cynical about religion. But they were good people. My parents always put others first. They were always honest, hard-working, kind and helpful. Seeing their good example is what made me behave well. I am proud to say that I come from people who do not lie, cheat or steal and who do their best to make the world a better place. That is more than many people who were raised in a church can say.
December 20th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
Oh thank you for this. You know I touched on this after thanksgiving and I couldn’t agree more. I hate the whole religion = morality bs. Morality = morality. I find good behavior done for religion’s sake is really just the avoidance of some sort of threat. I’ll have to get that book. Right up my alley.
December 20th, 2006 at 6:04 pm
Wow, Tacy’s teacher handled it really well, I think! That’s a tough situation as a teacher because … well, I’m sure you can see why.
I love those people who think morality comes from the bible. That is just about the funniest thing I’ve ever heard - morality comes from a book about people who left deformed children out in the elements to die and who sold their brothers and sisters into slavery? I’m holding my sides laughing at that.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:12 am
Hey Julie, are you guys okay? I just saw on the news that you had a bad snowstorm. Post or reply if you can : )
December 21st, 2006 at 8:04 am
I live in the liberal Northeast, where we’re all religious but really, really quiet about it. But the personal “moral” codes which most of us live by actually have very little to do with any kind of religious belief. In fact, we don’t snatch purses because, well, that’s simply not done in our society. That book looks interesting, because I firmly believe that you can dress up your approach to life in whatever religion you choose (I don’t kick puppies because I believe in God, yo) but it really all comes down to sociology.
December 21st, 2006 at 8:32 am
I can’t remember now who said it, but the statement was put out there that atheists are the only ones that can be truly moral, because they do good works solely for “goodness sake” without any hope of eternal reward.
December 21st, 2006 at 9:23 am
Does Santa Claus visit your kids? Do you give presents? May I say Happy Holidays or just have a nice day? Take care!
December 21st, 2006 at 10:26 am
WFW, we absolutely do celebrate Christmas! No way are we going to cheat ourselves out of fun. I accept any and all holiday greetings with a big smile.
December 21st, 2006 at 11:46 am
Abso-freakin-lutely. Here here. I cannot agree more.
I will refer my own charismatic Christian MIL to this post should she have any more questions for me about my lack of faith.
December 21st, 2006 at 4:02 pm
I enjoyed this post..must go buy that book now…
December 22nd, 2006 at 8:49 am
Nothing like a good book recommendation. THANK YOU for your eloquence in discussing a topic that is near and dear to my heart as well. I recently switched day cares and, because of limitations in choices in this small town, my kids will be in a Methodist day care once the new year begins. I’m stressing. They want my children to atten SANCTUARY every morning from eight to nine. WHAT?! They’re one and two years old! SANCTUARY?! We’ll see how it goes. I feel a blog post brewing this minute.
December 27th, 2006 at 10:11 am
Julie: I hope ya’ll had a great Christmas. I didn’t want to leave your question “hanging!” Condescending is the wrong word and I know that wasn’t your intent. I am sensitive about my religious beliefs and I’ll wholeheartedly admit that I’m at a point where I’m no longer sure about the things I was taught growing up, but I’m also feeling guilty about not taking my girls to church regularly. I work with a guy who is an atheist, but I don’t know much about where he stands as far as his beliefs as he is extremely private. (Hey, maybe he has a blog?)
I concur that you can be a good, moral person without being religious or subscribing to man’s views of what is “right” via organized religion. I just have a hard time relating to atheism, but that’s my viewpoint.