Call me what you wish
The following is Part Two in a response to the comments generated by Catherine’s (Her Bad Mother) and my pieces on feminism. Part One is here.
Why is my refusal to self-identify as a feminist bothersome?
Does it signify that I’m against you, since if I were with you, then I’d call myself a feminist? Does it negate or lessen my successes of the past thirty-something years? Does self-identification give me credibility that I wouldn’t otherwise have?
When I first met my former sister-in-law, who knew that Kyle and I had recently been reading Ayn Rand’s books on philosophy, she half-asked, half-stated, “So you’re an Objectivist too?”
I cringed. Even though I really liked much of what Rand had to say, I shied away from the label.
Is my father a feminist for encouraging me to load up on the math and science classes and to pursue a scholarship in engineering? (I can hear him snorting from here.)
Is my husband a feminist for referring to Tacy as “the future leader of the free world” and for routinely telling people that I was a much better Air Force officer than he was? (I can hear him laughing from here.)
Or are they merely showing appropriate respect for great minds and great talents? (I can hear them both saying, “Nice way to compliment yourself, Julie!” from here.)
I would be devastated to think that any of my successes were due – in whole or in part – to the fact that I’m female. I’d be happier to think that I succeeded IN SPITE OF being female. I want to earn my successes. Don’t ever LET me win. It won’t mean anything to me.
I love intellectual discourse – rational discussions of philosophy and sociology and current events. But the emotional diatribes, the exaggeration to make a point, the blind dedication to an agenda – well, it turns me off. Not only does it indicate that the person I’m speaking to isn’t willing to take the time to hear me and understand me, but it weakens their argument. Ask anyone who is familiar with debate principles.
I can’t control what someone else might call me – be it feminist, bitch, mommyblogger, or some other supposedly derogatory term. Call me what you like; it’s not going to get my knickers in a knot.
But until I see a well-reasoned argument as to why it’s essential that I label myself, I will persist in my refusal.
Part Three to be posted tomorrow.
October 4th, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Hey, nobody has the right to put a label on you, your spouse, your dad, or any human, for that matter.
That being said, I would have to add that yes, the two men in your life do support feminist doctrine, at least as explained in that Tomato Nation article I posted awhile back.
Does that make them feminists? No.
And I like what you’re saying about success in spite of gender strictures and being “let” win; if I succeed I want it to be because I did it, not because of whether I pee standing up or sitting down. Or a quota. Or whatever.
But I still call myself a feminist. By choice. As your choice is to not wear the name tag. And that’s totally cool by me.
October 4th, 2006 at 4:06 pm
i think that you can be whatever you want to be. call yourself whatever you choose to call yourself. it really doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks- and i don’t see why they’re so offended by your lack of wanting to label yourself something.
October 4th, 2006 at 4:07 pm
ps- i like to label you a hot sexy bitch. is that okay?
October 4th, 2006 at 4:31 pm
labels aside, your voice speaks volumes. i think we find it easier to define so we know where to place folks in the rooms of our minds, and discomfort arises when we meet those that refuse to go quietly into one of those rooms. And there is everything right about that, for damn sure.
October 4th, 2006 at 6:36 pm
I think someone already said it but I really like this label better:
Humanist
We are, after all, all human beings.
October 4th, 2006 at 6:50 pm
That’s why I like you so much, you’re true to yourself. You’ve convinced me. We’re assigned so many labels without even opening our mouths. Who needs to add more to the confusion?
October 4th, 2006 at 8:10 pm
I’ll drink to earning one’s successes, certainly! I don’t want special accomodations or treatment because I am female, which in my own mind does make me something of a “feminist” because I don’t want people to notice my gender. I want to be seen as a person, not as a (condescending pat on the head) woman.
October 4th, 2006 at 9:41 pm
I just read your original piece over at HBM, and you make very compelling points. I can’t wait to read Part Three. Whatever you choose to call yourself, or not call yourself, I respect the conviction and conscientious thought behind the decision.
October 5th, 2006 at 12:18 am
From the description of the ideas you support, I would have guessed that you consider yourself a feminist, but I believe that people should have the right to identify as they wish. If you don’t want that label, no one should force it upon you.
It often still happens on government and other forms that people of mixed race heritage are/were forced to categorize themselves under one race or another. They had to choose one or another from a series of checkboxes, instead of being both of Caucasian and Asian-American descent, for example. This might seem minor, but being constantly offically mis-labeled must be pretty aggravating.
October 5th, 2006 at 5:36 am
Quite a powerful post, one that I really can relate to. Looking forward to Part Three.
October 5th, 2006 at 6:33 am
I get you. I really do. I wrote about this myself a while back.
http://bloggersrepent.blogspot.com/2006/04/feminism-skepticism.html
(not hawking my own blog here, just want to express and demonstrate my agreement with your very stirring argument)
I don’t know why others are so threatened when someone chooses not to chain themselves to a label. I believe in the power and equality of women, but I don’t believe in embracing a set of ideals that divides women on the basis of their choices. The freedom that Feminism has afforded us is a good thing. But it has also enslaved us with tenets that restrict that hard won freedom.
Great topic, and wonderful discourse. It makes for some compelling reading.
October 5th, 2006 at 9:23 am
Yes, I totally agree. I love the choice it brought women. It’s hard to identify yourself as a feminist because I think there is a fear of being the kind of feminst who polarizes women. I am the kind of feminist who supports any woman’s choice and opportunity, whatever she chooses to do with them.
Lisa
October 5th, 2006 at 10:20 am
“I would be devastated to think that any of my successes were due – in whole or in part – to the fact that I’m female. I’d be happier to think that I succeeded IN SPITE OF being female. I want to earn my successes. Don’t ever LET me win. It won’t mean anything to me.”
Now exchange the word “female” with the word “hispanic” or “minority” and that’s the exact reason why I don’t like affirmative action.
October 5th, 2006 at 10:39 am
I don’t know so much that people are bothered by an unwillingness for you to put a label on yourself. Some may be, but others may just be looking to simplify your stances so they know who they are dealing with. Some people define feminism as being pro equal rights and opportunities for women, and nothing more. If they run into someone with that mindset, then they will just simplify and acknowledge the person being a feminist according to their definition. If a person has the mindset to oppress women, then they will refuse to give them the label. Some labels can be somewhat ambiguous when it comes the average person’s understanding (ie. feminist, racist, chauvenist, humanist), so one person may disagree with another person’s label. Technically speaking, it isn’t appropriate to admit that we are placing a label onto another person. Everyone wants to think of themselves as a unique individual, not a one dimensional Webster’s definition. I am the same way in that I don’t think I fit cleanly into any one box. However, I know that an outsider can’t grasp all the dimensions of my personality, nor are they privy to each and every one of my opinions on the intricacies of various controversial topics. This is why they may simplify in order to get an idea of where I am coming from. The impression I give them based on the limited insight into my mind will give them an idea of what camp I am in. If a person is looking for a friend who wants to see a government make decisions on behalf of our nation’s women, then they will know to keep looking. Why? Because they will say “she’s a feminist, I’m not interested”. Maybe it is a sad thing to cut someone out of your life because of labels, but if a particular label gives strong insight into who we are, then it is a way of weeding out people whose ideals are so far from our own that we would end up with a volatile relationship (think Archie and Meathead, lol). I am always open to different perceptions, but I may draw the line with someone who is a racist, an anti-Semite (obviously in my case), a chauvenist, religious extremist, etc. Yes, those are labels, but they are labels that carry a lot of weight. They tell us about a big part of a person’s personality. As long as people remember that everyone is more complex than any one issue they support, then I don’t think occasional simplification is a bad thing.
BTW, Travis gets mad about the label thing when it comes to religion. I have referred to him as leaning on the deist side of agnostic. He doesn’t like that, and therefore has told me nobody has a right to put a label on him. That is probably the best way to define his views, but I won’t taunt him with a label that he doesn’t want to wear. I only use it if someone specifically asks for insight into his belief system. I can either say “he leans to the deist side of agnostic while I lean to the atheist side of agnostic”, or I could sit down for 2 hours and give them the low down of where we stand on every aspect of religion. When people have gotten mad at my personal label and said “you are an atheist”, then I just say “fine”. It doesn’t offend me in the slightest, and if they prefer their own definition over mine, then there is nothing more I can say to convince them otherwise. In the end, it all boils down to semantics.
Stacey
October 5th, 2006 at 10:41 am
Yikes! That was a long post. Sorry. I wasn’t trying to be a blog hog.
October 5th, 2006 at 11:36 am
Stacey, in posing the question at the beginning of this post – why is my refusal to self-identify as a feminist bothersome – I’m referring to a comment made earlier:
“I have never understood people who agree with feminist goals but who are afraid to call themselves as such (that includes the matching post to this one whose arguments didn’t convince me at all). Why do I get the feeling that some women don’t self-identify as feminists because they’re afraid people might not like them or think they’re something they’re not??? Why do women care so much about whether strangers like them or agree with them???”
I found this comment pretty laughable – who is this person to say that I’m afraid people won’t like me? Frankly, I’ve prejudiced MORE people against me by refusing to self-identify – for example, that commenter herself – than I would have by toeing the party/sisterhood line.
I was also referring to a post written by Mad Hatter Mommy – http://madhattermommy.blogspot.com/2006/10/ranty-ranty-rant.html – which expressed similar frustration with women like me, but in a much more respectful way.
And TMRP – damn straight.
October 5th, 2006 at 11:57 am
Dude, call yourself anything you want. I think that’s your prerogative in life. My guess however is that when people perceive a particular movement or (dreaded “ism”) as being something so positive and wonderful (emphasis on the word “perceive”) that they find it offensive that you could not want to be a part of it. I suppose it’s like how a lot of “proud Americans” feel when someone says they’re embarrassed to be an American these days. We all bring our own experiences to the party and sometimes it’s hard to get out of your own head enough to see someone else’s point of view.
THe quote you mention above…I actually agree with that. But I don’t think that you’re included in that assessment. I think you’ve been very articulate about your reasons here.
October 5th, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Julie, I see why that post would irritate you. While I don’t disagree with her assessment when it comes to some people, I don’t think that applies to you. Some people are too weak to stand up for their opinions, but you are not one of those people. It isn’t fair to lump you in with the weak just because you don’t want to wear a certain label. You made it perfectly clear why you take the stance that you do. People shouldn’t dismiss the substance of the post just because they come to a different conclusion. If your post contained nothing more than “don’t worry, I’m not a feminist”, then I could see that person questioning the reasons behind your stance.
And Terri, right on sista!!!
October 5th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
Labels always confine us. Labels can sometimes define us. If I had more than two hours of non-kid interrupted sleep I’d put all this very intelligently (I hope). You get the gist. You are very articulate in your argument against subscribing to any labels. I like your style.
You are not weak for resisting compartmentalization. But, clearly, you don’t require my validation. You seem self-assured and confident already. I wish I had a few drops of the gumption you seem to embody. Thanks for lifting up my day with your strength and resolve. A Southern California SAHM who is blowing off her chores yet again to play on the momblogosphere.
October 5th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
I think labels can be good or bad.
How’s that?
Ha. No really. Labels to help in terms of showing a sense of belonging. and I think in some instances – particularly in grass roots movements, as well as for folks that don’ t have a lot of support, it’s helpful. When parents don’t want to classify their kids with disabilities because they don’t want the labels, it doesn’t help them – they don’t get the attention they need often times because folks don’t know what their label is.
And then it can turn bad when the label is used against them.
Hm? Has that crossed your mind? I mean, do you not like the negative associations with the label? (And know this, I by NO MEANS thing you should be anything but yourself and what you believe – I’m just continuing the banter here).
Maybe the feminists don’t need another woman. Maybe we’re doing well…
Again, post coming. Damn this no wireless thing. It’s cramping my style.
October 5th, 2006 at 6:50 pm
K, your point re kids made me think of Kari’s son, the Cat. Based on what she has written, his autism spectrum diagnosis (label) has both helped and hurt him.
I think my ultimate grievance with any sort of label is that it’s subjective. There’s always a way to misinterpret it or use it against someone. I believe I’ve worn out my welcome talking about it in this forum, so I think my next post on the topic will be at The Imperfect Parent. And it won’t be about feminism, but about atheism/agnosticism/humanism, and how the struggle to find an appropriate label has gotten fairly ridiculous.